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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 469 for the 15th of

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October 2017 richardsaunders here with

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you from Sydney Australia and for those

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people who want to keep a check on

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things overcast and a bit cool today

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coming up on this week's show I talked

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to a cool customer talking about cool

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Ben Radford the investigator the psychic

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investigator he's not a psychic who

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investigates now he investigates

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psychics or people who claim they're

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psychic I should say and especially when

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if he's interests especially is people

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who claim to help police psychics

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hang on we'll start again people who

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claim their psychic claiming to help

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police people here yeah I think I've

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read that right something like that

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anyway mens gonna be talking about that

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and also the latest sort of news with

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the UFOs another one of Ben's great

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interests following that it's a story

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from the Australian skeptics a very

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important story really as it turns out

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because the government have prosecuted

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an outfit making false health claims

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this is very important it's it's a great

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precedent because so many of the people

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we are concerned about skeptical of I'm

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making what we consider to be very

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suspicious or dodgy claims about health

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be it with magic pills or devices that

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don't work and so on so to see some

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government action taken against people

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spooking bogus health advice is very

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important find out more coming up soon

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then it's a grain of salt with Iran so

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give one of the continuing series of

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interviews around conducted in the

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recent skeptics Congress in Poland and

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this week Iran talks to the African

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skeptic Leo egg way about witchcraft and

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fighting superstition now Leo is a man

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we all admire because he really puts his

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life on the line when it comes to

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battling superstition and these sort of

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things in Africa then some news from

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Maynard our reporter Maynard he and Tim

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Ferguson are going to be doing a live

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presentation of their award-winning

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podcast bunga bunga that's happening in

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November here in Sydney at the Herald

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Park Hotel lots of details coming up a

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bit later on in the show I'll be there

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and I hope you will be too then we have

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another interview from the

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globe-trotting susan gerbic susan was

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recently in Italy and she met up with

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Chiara Pasquini from Chico the Italian

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committee for investigation of claims of

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the paranormal yes it's no surprise that

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skeptics are everywhere everywhere even

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in Italy and we can find out more about

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that organization coming up with susan

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gerbic

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then to round off the show we hear from

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dr. angie matt key with the question a

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question for me from dr. angie right at

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the end of the show in the loose end

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segment I make hello to all those people

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who are at the QED question explore

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discover in Manchester right now as I

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speak and maybe some of you will be

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downloading the skeptic zone for a bit

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of late night listening I wish I was

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there but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs and in honor of my dear

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friend ilithyia Dean who got married

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yesterday to Nathan Lee congratulations

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you two ilithyia is a member of the

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Australian skeptics committee and they

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did it in secret and it was a bit of a

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surprise we all turned up for the

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engagement party and it turned out to be

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a wedding party well done you two in

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honor of your wedding yesterday I'll run

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downstairs and have a bit of cake why

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not then I'll run straight back upstairs

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again will I do all that I hope you

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[Music]

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and joining me now all the way from

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Albuquerque and New Mexico one day one

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day Ben I promise I'll visit Albuquerque

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New Mexico Ben Radford hello hello there

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Richard yes yes good good - I'm actually

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good to speak to you I think because of

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the the time line and I'm actually

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speaking from your past sort of form of

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time travel if I'm not mistaken because

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I think your day ahead of me which I

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always find baffling even though you

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know a science might as fellow well

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let's be frank here I'm always a day

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ahead of you and probably a dollar a

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dollar ahead of me as well but I'm

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always a day ahead of you but always

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trying to catch up work that one out

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now I wanted to catch up with you

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because some months ago we interviewed

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you when you were just starting this

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strange new podcast called squaring the

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strange and as I've been listening every

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week and enjoying that I've noticed the

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show is going from strength to strength

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how's it going from your point of view

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it's going pretty well and we certainly

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appreciate you know you're mentioning it

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on the show and and I know at least a

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few of your listeners have tuned in we

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we were very much appreciate it it's

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going quite well I think last I heard we

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just recently surpassed 30,000 downloads

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right which is you know I mean for a

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relatively recent start up in the

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skeptical crowd you know it's it's not

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spectacular but I it's sort of thing you

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know something to be be pleased about

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and of course we've also had the more

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frequent participation of Celestia Ward

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yes the occasional content producer and

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she's be giving us commentary and

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skeptical fortune cookies and all sorts

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of fun stuff like that so it's it's

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going pretty well I love it I think that

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you all do a great job but I do like

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this thing when Celestia is on

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I think apart from

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anything else she has she's quite

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knowledgeable but she has a wonderful

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wonderful voice for podcasting I think

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yeah yeah absolutely it was nice to sort

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of bring in another another angle to it

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and and of course you know as some of

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our listeners know you know Celestion I

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have done a couple investigations

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together including of John Edward and

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his techniques both cold and hot reading

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in his his performances is probably the

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most yeah the most gracious way to put

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it and she and I actually sort of went

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undercover at one of one of John Edwards

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performances and saw how he manipulated

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the audience and pivoted on certain

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things and that was what there was a

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topic of a recent show so it's it's been

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fun to sort of be able to engage her as

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well it certainly wasn't folks I

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encourage you to listen to squaring the

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strange it is a very interesting podcast

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indeed especially for the skeptically

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minded which I think many of the skeptic

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zone listeners are then another another

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topic just quickly before we move on to

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chat about psychic detectives his there

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the other day a couple of days ago I

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bothered you because I was asked to

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comment on the latest the latest rehash

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of the Roswell incident where this

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mysterious film Grady overexposed film

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emerged purporting to be of the alien

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from Roswell being stretch it away or

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taken somewhere on a stretcher which

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apparently turns out to be area 51 it

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has all the makings of an obvious fraud

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and obvious fake I mean we've got

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Roswell we've got area 51 we've got the

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alien look that looks like a human dummy

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on a bed well I mean is this the gift

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that just keeps on giving what why why

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do you think that Roswell and area 51

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haven't sort of you know settled down

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into folklore more by now you know

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that's a good question I think there's a

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couple things and of course living here

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in New Mexico Roswell is only about you

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know three four hours away and for New

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Mexico skeptics as you said it's the

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keep that keeps giving

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annoying depending on your point of view

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you know it is it's fast in there

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there's a couple reasons for that one of

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them the most obvious of course is that

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it's a moneymaker yeah it's a moneymaker

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for Roswell they have an annual of

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course UFO Roswell crash Festival and in

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Roswell I've attended I think twice and

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it's actually been interesting from a

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skeptical point of view because you know

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I'm going there and and I'm of course

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you know sort of the that the token or

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only skeptic you know wandering around

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people are skeptical but of course if

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you're if you're gonna drive a Roswell

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it's it's it's it's it's a it's a nice

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enough town but you're not going it's

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not a stopover you're not you're not

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going to Los Angeles through Roswell you

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know it's the honestly it's sort of like

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Inverness in Scotland I mean the the the

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main reason you go to Inverness is to

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see Loch Ness and the monster the main

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reason you go to Roswell is to see you

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know your own alien stuff okay why not

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it's very much yeah why it's very much

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been promoted by but by by not only the

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town itself but of course by by authors

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and and and and people like that and so

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you know they they you know they have to

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keep rehashing it because they've

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already sold the books and so it's a

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case of where you know it's you can't

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just say well yes I we everything has

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been written about Roswell they have to

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keep reading reacted rehashing and of

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course the the irony is that you know if

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you as you know having the backstory to

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the Roswell Roswell incident you know it

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was it was a non-event for for 30 years

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between 47 in the in the 70s 30 40 years

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so it was it was it was a it was a case

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of where no one really talked about it

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for it was it's just a non it was a non

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thing and then all of a sudden people

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were digging it up and turning it into

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you know rehashing these these your

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fabrications and these exaggerations and

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of course it just becomes this

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self-perpetuating prophecy so that's

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that's part of it well you know what I

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did I was asked to comment on this new

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video last week I'm on a radio segment I

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do here in Australia

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and I I you know in my head I sort of I

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know the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle but

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just to make sure what I did is I went

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back and I listened read listen to

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episode six I think of squaring the

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strange where you cover this in detail

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the whole Roswell story in the timelines

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and the various crashes plural and the

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fact that there was a big 30 year gap so

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that helped me immensely so it's what

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influenced that you know in the back of

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my head I hope that people occasionally

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will go back to past episodes of the

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skeptic zone to hear interviews and

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reports and things for research purposes

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so I think we're doing we're doing a

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service having these podcasts out there

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just to have some information which is

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freely available for people young I'm

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glad you brought that up I do think it's

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00:12:07,220 --> 00:12:02,699
very important and and I know that

271
00:12:09,109 --> 00:12:07,230
sounds self-serving of course it really

272
00:12:10,639 --> 00:12:09,119
is true I mean for example you know

273
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skeptical Inquirer magazine which of

274
00:12:15,169 --> 00:12:12,239
course I'm the deputy editor of and have

275
00:12:18,109 --> 00:12:15,179
been for going on 20 years now um you

276
00:12:19,729 --> 00:12:18,119
know you can go back and reread and

277
00:12:21,379 --> 00:12:19,739
sometimes I go back and reread I don't

278
00:12:24,139 --> 00:12:21,389
unfortunately don't have as much time as

279
00:12:26,269 --> 00:12:24,149
I would like none of us do but but if

280
00:12:28,579 --> 00:12:26,279
you go back and reread articles in the

281
00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:28,589
magazine from late seventies and

282
00:12:34,699 --> 00:12:31,049
throughout the 80s and even the 90s many

283
00:12:36,259 --> 00:12:34,709
the articles are are fresh they're you

284
00:12:38,449 --> 00:12:36,269
know occasionally there's some sort of

285
00:12:40,909 --> 00:12:38,459
some some stale you know event that was

286
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:40,919
only at the time but so much of that

287
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:42,569
content and not just kept poking

288
00:12:46,819 --> 00:12:44,850
quarrels of skeptic magazine you know

289
00:12:49,549 --> 00:12:46,829
the British version and of course the

290
00:12:52,549 --> 00:12:49,559
Australian magazine there's there's so

291
00:12:55,460 --> 00:12:52,559
much of this really interesting in-depth

292
00:12:57,650 --> 00:12:55,470
quality sceptical material that you know

293
00:13:00,169 --> 00:12:57,660
just because it was published in 83 or

294
00:13:02,269 --> 00:13:00,179
97 doesn't mean it's not incredibly

295
00:13:03,949 --> 00:13:02,279
relevant today you're absolutely right

296
00:13:06,139 --> 00:13:03,959
and as we remind listeners of the

297
00:13:09,710 --> 00:13:06,149
skeptic zone that skeptics calm today

298
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:09,720
you there are free pdf download which

299
00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:14,160
are the magazines going back to 1981 so

300
00:13:18,109 --> 00:13:16,529
yes I and I use that myself for various

301
00:13:19,549 --> 00:13:18,119
research purposes so it's nice to know

302
00:13:21,319 --> 00:13:19,559
this sort of thing is out there for

303
00:13:23,359 --> 00:13:21,329
everybody to use and one of the topics

304
00:13:24,650 --> 00:13:23,369
that of course is mentioned in the pages

305
00:13:27,470 --> 00:13:24,660
of all those magazines

306
00:13:28,789 --> 00:13:27,480
it's the perennial the evergreen the one

307
00:13:30,260 --> 00:13:28,799
that will not die it's psychic

308
00:13:32,570 --> 00:13:30,270
detectives and I bring this top

309
00:13:37,250 --> 00:13:32,580
pick up because just in the last couple

310
00:13:39,470 --> 00:13:37,260
of weeks one of the prominent members of

311
00:13:42,620 --> 00:13:39,480
the police force here in New South Wales

312
00:13:45,050 --> 00:13:42,630
Australia Detective Chief Inspector

313
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:45,060
Gary deublin made this statement in

314
00:13:51,020 --> 00:13:47,850
relation to a missing child case he said

315
00:13:53,570 --> 00:13:51,030
quote but please do not waste our time

316
00:13:56,090 --> 00:13:53,580
we are not interested in information

317
00:13:58,370 --> 00:13:56,100
from clairvoyance or people who have had

318
00:14:00,920 --> 00:13:58,380
dreams and he also said in a press

319
00:14:02,930 --> 00:14:00,930
statement quote and I'll remind the

320
00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:02,940
public that the New South Wales Police

321
00:14:08,780 --> 00:14:05,880
Force does not seek help from psychics

322
00:14:12,890 --> 00:14:08,790
mediums and clairvoyance end quote

323
00:14:15,260 --> 00:14:12,900
that is pretty strong stuff pin Bravo

324
00:14:18,260 --> 00:14:15,270
Bravo yeah we need more we need much

325
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:18,270
more of that in my opinion that's I'm so

326
00:14:22,940 --> 00:14:19,890
glad to hear that because you know too

327
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:22,950
often I come across and you come across

328
00:14:27,860 --> 00:14:25,920
and also of course other Joe Nickell and

329
00:14:31,420 --> 00:14:27,870
Gary possum and others who follow it and

330
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:31,430
you could say dogged psychic detectives

331
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:34,410
for for literally decades you know too

332
00:14:40,070 --> 00:14:37,440
often the you you find these these sort

333
00:14:41,870 --> 00:14:40,080
of often cherry-picked quotes from a

334
00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:41,880
police officer or a constable somewhere

335
00:14:47,300 --> 00:14:44,910
who makes some statement that appears at

336
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:47,310
least superficially to to validate

337
00:14:54,110 --> 00:14:50,370
psychics and I've come across probably a

338
00:14:55,940 --> 00:14:54,120
half dozen of them or so where there's a

339
00:14:57,260 --> 00:14:55,950
go well you know so I could give us

340
00:14:58,670 --> 00:14:57,270
information that you know that and

341
00:15:00,680 --> 00:14:58,680
they'll phrase it in a way that you know

342
00:15:03,290 --> 00:15:00,690
it turned out to be right well yes but

343
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:03,300
that doesn't mean anything that's not it

344
00:15:06,620 --> 00:15:05,040
may have turned out to be right but that

345
00:15:08,330 --> 00:15:06,630
was because it was so general and vague

346
00:15:10,220 --> 00:15:08,340
that of course it was right but

347
00:15:12,740 --> 00:15:10,230
unfortunately the those those are

348
00:15:14,090 --> 00:15:12,750
exactly the sorts of quotes that the

349
00:15:16,820 --> 00:15:14,100
psychic detectives used to promote

350
00:15:18,830 --> 00:15:16,830
themselves and they shy away of course

351
00:15:20,810 --> 00:15:18,840
from from the much stronger statements

352
00:15:23,630 --> 00:15:20,820
by people like the you know the New

353
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:23,640
South Wales officer that their their

354
00:15:29,180 --> 00:15:26,730
crystal clear you know do not bring us

355
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:29,190
dreams we can't use that don't give us

356
00:15:33,650 --> 00:15:31,170
hunches don't if you have actionable

357
00:15:35,870 --> 00:15:33,660
information then that's wonderful but

358
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:35,880
but I mean I could just imagine a

359
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:38,010
beleaguered a police officer you're

360
00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:39,450
trying to do their best to find a

361
00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:41,100
missing person maybe alive maybe dead

362
00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:43,110
who knows and there

363
00:15:48,019 --> 00:15:45,750
inundated by often well-meaning people

364
00:15:50,780 --> 00:15:48,029
who saw something on the on the news

365
00:15:54,380 --> 00:15:50,790
report and that night had a dream about

366
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:54,390
the missing child or what happened with

367
00:15:58,880 --> 00:15:56,850
no anchor in reality whatsoever and then

368
00:16:01,519 --> 00:15:58,890
there they're obligated or expected to

369
00:16:03,620 --> 00:16:01,529
follow up on that they are and it is as

370
00:16:06,650 --> 00:16:03,630
I've mentioned on the the script exam

371
00:16:08,420 --> 00:16:06,660
podcast and other outlets it's a waste

372
00:16:10,340 --> 00:16:08,430
of police time where the police should

373
00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:10,350
be in doing some investigations that

374
00:16:13,940 --> 00:16:12,000
could really help solve the case they're

375
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:13,950
wasting time dealing with people who

376
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:17,250
well as we say had dreams or people who

377
00:16:20,930 --> 00:16:19,290
think they're genuinely psychic and a

378
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:20,940
lot of people out there that I deal with

379
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:23,370
especially really do have the delusion

380
00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:25,170
that they're they have psychic magic

381
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:27,510
psychic powers and another one I've come

382
00:16:31,639 --> 00:16:29,610
across which is a favorite when I've

383
00:16:34,009 --> 00:16:31,649
said well certainly the of course police

384
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:34,019
don't use psychics to solve crimes the

385
00:16:37,389 --> 00:16:35,850
answer is oh yes they do but you know

386
00:16:40,250 --> 00:16:37,399
they wouldn't talk about it would they

387
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:40,260
yes I that I'm glad you brought that up

388
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:41,970
that's one of my favorite pet peeves

389
00:16:47,090 --> 00:16:45,360
about these is is is you find over and

390
00:16:48,860 --> 00:16:47,100
over again as you mentioned a conspiracy

391
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:48,870
theory and that that's exactly what it

392
00:16:54,620 --> 00:16:52,560
is it's a conspiracy and this came I

393
00:16:56,540 --> 00:16:54,630
that this I've ever come across this

394
00:17:01,189 --> 00:16:56,550
many times including there was a famous

395
00:17:04,819 --> 00:17:01,199
psychic Allison Dubois who may recognize

396
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:04,829
she was the the the alleged inspiration

397
00:17:10,490 --> 00:17:08,160
for the TV show medium which starred one

398
00:17:14,750 --> 00:17:10,500
of the Arquette sisters on NBC I think

399
00:17:16,039 --> 00:17:14,760
ran first for many seasons and and I at

400
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:16,049
one point I won't go into the whole

401
00:17:18,919 --> 00:17:17,370
story because you can read about

402
00:17:21,289 --> 00:17:18,929
elsewhere but at one point she made

403
00:17:23,090 --> 00:17:21,299
claims about having solved crimes for

404
00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:23,100
the Texas Rangers and the Glendale

405
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:26,370
Police Department spoiler alert I called

406
00:17:32,419 --> 00:17:28,650
them up and they refuted her claims

407
00:17:35,299 --> 00:17:32,429
flatly yeah and and I again there's

408
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:35,309
going to the whole story but it but when

409
00:17:39,950 --> 00:17:37,679
when she was asked about that her answer

410
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:39,960
was well they just they don't want you

411
00:17:44,090 --> 00:17:41,760
to know that I'm working with them they

412
00:17:45,710 --> 00:17:44,100
don't then they don't want the public to

413
00:17:47,180 --> 00:17:45,720
know that I'm solving crimes for them

414
00:17:48,830 --> 00:17:47,190
know would just make a whole TV show

415
00:17:51,860 --> 00:17:48,840
about it but we don't want the public to

416
00:17:53,630 --> 00:17:51,870
know right right and and first of all I

417
00:17:55,010 --> 00:17:53,640
mean there's so many levels is the first

418
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:55,020
one is that's incredibly insulting

419
00:17:58,549 --> 00:17:56,610
they're hard-working

420
00:18:01,760 --> 00:17:58,559
investigators and police officers who

421
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:01,770
actually solve these cases it's it's

422
00:18:06,650 --> 00:18:05,250
just slap in the face to people who do -

423
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:06,660
you know people who are doing their best

424
00:18:12,110 --> 00:18:09,450
to interview witnesses in canvas areas

425
00:18:14,210 --> 00:18:12,120
and analyze evidence to have some

426
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:14,220
self-proclaimed psychics swoop in say

427
00:18:17,780 --> 00:18:16,290
well I I told them where to find the

428
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:17,790
suspect right Knowlton where to find the

429
00:18:22,970 --> 00:18:20,130
body when when that's what's entirely

430
00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:22,980
untrue and of course in many cases the

431
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:26,400
police are bound to confidentiality you

432
00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:27,690
know they're they're not they're not

433
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:30,720
free to publicly give information

434
00:18:34,010 --> 00:18:32,250
especially if it's a high-profile crime

435
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:34,020
you you don't want to give too much

436
00:18:38,299 --> 00:18:36,240
information I even made jeopardize at

437
00:18:41,390 --> 00:18:38,309
trial things like that and so oftentimes

438
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:41,400
they're gagged in in their ability to to

439
00:18:45,799 --> 00:18:43,290
refute and respond to these psychics who

440
00:18:47,930 --> 00:18:45,809
who claimed this this overall conspiracy

441
00:18:49,940 --> 00:18:47,940
theory about how well we're actually

442
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:49,950
solving all these crimes with NATO wants

443
00:18:53,210 --> 00:18:51,360
you to know about it why wouldn't they

444
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:53,220
want you to know about I mean if if you

445
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:55,410
can solve these crimes if you can

446
00:19:00,940 --> 00:18:58,799
actually find missing persons um then in

447
00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:00,950
my opinion you should be a highly paid

448
00:19:06,380 --> 00:19:03,809
you know contractor for the police and

449
00:19:08,270 --> 00:19:06,390
the FBI and and and the you know the

450
00:19:10,900 --> 00:19:08,280
Federal Police I mean if you can do this

451
00:19:13,549 --> 00:19:10,910
that's an incredibly important powerful

452
00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:13,559
expertise to have on the other hand if

453
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:15,929
you can't do it then shut up yeah well

454
00:19:19,730 --> 00:19:17,520
there's a classic case I remember years

455
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:19,740
ago in Australia where a psychic

456
00:19:24,049 --> 00:19:21,570
so-called psychic was interviewed on TV

457
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:24,059
who said they helped the police with

458
00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:26,130
this inquiry or that murder case or

459
00:19:30,610 --> 00:19:28,200
whatever and when pressed they said well

460
00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:30,620
like we sent the police a letter with

461
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,809
information I got things wrong in it and

462
00:19:36,830 --> 00:19:35,280
they said well really what did the

463
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:36,840
police act on the information and the

464
00:19:41,030 --> 00:19:38,250
psychic said well I don't know

465
00:19:42,260 --> 00:19:41,040
and but later they go around saying I

466
00:19:43,820 --> 00:19:42,270
help the police in other words they

467
00:19:45,260 --> 00:19:43,830
write police wrong information they

468
00:19:47,299 --> 00:19:45,270
don't know whether it was received or

469
00:19:50,750 --> 00:19:47,309
read or acted upon but they still they

470
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:50,760
help the police yeah it's it's so

471
00:19:56,330 --> 00:19:52,890
frustrating it and I'm some of that on

472
00:19:59,360 --> 00:19:56,340
journalists and reporters I see Eisley

473
00:20:02,810 --> 00:19:59,370
I see poorly written headlines a few

474
00:20:04,930 --> 00:20:02,820
times a year where it'll be in it's not

475
00:20:07,010 --> 00:20:04,940
intentional it's just it's just sloppy

476
00:20:10,580 --> 00:20:07,020
journalism and it will the headline will

477
00:20:13,789 --> 00:20:10,590
be psychic aids police in

478
00:20:16,519 --> 00:20:13,799
in missing persons search and and what

479
00:20:18,590 --> 00:20:16,529
what they mean is that a psychic has

480
00:20:20,629 --> 00:20:18,600
ingratiated themselves or sort of

481
00:20:24,110 --> 00:20:20,639
inserted themselves into the search

482
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:24,120
which is not uncommon that does not mean

483
00:20:28,940 --> 00:20:26,850
be crystal clear that does not mean that

484
00:20:31,129 --> 00:20:28,950
the information found the person and

485
00:20:32,930 --> 00:20:31,139
over and over again I see this you know

486
00:20:34,759 --> 00:20:32,940
it's like you know psychic helps in

487
00:20:36,889 --> 00:20:34,769
search and then you read the article

488
00:20:38,869 --> 00:20:36,899
they haven't found the person well if

489
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:38,879
they haven't found the person how do you

490
00:20:43,639 --> 00:20:41,970
know if they've helped they've given him

491
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:43,649
information which may be true may not be

492
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:46,080
true who knows it's they haven't helped

493
00:20:50,299 --> 00:20:47,730
at all and it's so frustrating because

494
00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:50,309
again it's you know the reporters in the

495
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:51,840
in the headline writers I mean they

496
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:53,730
they're not trying to mislead the public

497
00:20:57,470 --> 00:20:55,440
they just don't know house to phrase it

498
00:21:00,409 --> 00:20:57,480
yeah and unfortunately that ends up

499
00:21:02,629 --> 00:21:00,419
perpetuating this this myth oh and it

500
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:02,639
sells newspapers so to speak yeah yeah

501
00:21:06,830 --> 00:21:03,840
yeah absolutely

502
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:06,840
there's a great quote I love from Samuel

503
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:10,320
Clemens Mark Twain and it's I believe

504
00:21:13,180 --> 00:21:12,210
it's a true quote it may be attributed

505
00:21:16,129 --> 00:21:13,190
to him

506
00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:16,139
it's about reputations he says if a man

507
00:21:21,289 --> 00:21:18,360
has a reputation as an early riser he

508
00:21:22,609 --> 00:21:21,299
can sleep until noon which which you

509
00:21:25,159 --> 00:21:22,619
understand as long as you have the

510
00:21:27,019 --> 00:21:25,169
reputation and some people are labeled

511
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:27,029
in the press as so and so and so on so

512
00:21:32,389 --> 00:21:29,850
the psychic detective which is their

513
00:21:34,730 --> 00:21:32,399
moniker right and and then in the public

514
00:21:37,249 --> 00:21:34,740
imagination they're a sight that they're

515
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:37,259
real they're the psychic detective yeah

516
00:21:40,970 --> 00:21:39,330
absolutely absolutely and and you know

517
00:21:42,889 --> 00:21:40,980
again just just to go back to the

518
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:42,899
previous point about you know the the

519
00:21:48,499 --> 00:21:45,840
real-world absence of psychics you know

520
00:21:49,940 --> 00:21:48,509
I I I see this all the time recently as

521
00:21:51,980 --> 00:21:49,950
you know in the past few weeks we've had

522
00:21:54,169 --> 00:21:51,990
a string of natural disasters we had

523
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:54,179
flooding in Texas we have the Hurricanes

524
00:21:58,369 --> 00:21:55,679
in Puerto Rico and elsewhere in the

525
00:22:00,919 --> 00:21:58,379
Caribbean we had the the earthquake in

526
00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:00,929
Mexico in all these cases you have

527
00:22:05,539 --> 00:22:03,809
missing persons you have people whose

528
00:22:07,129 --> 00:22:05,549
families don't know if they're alive or

529
00:22:08,509 --> 00:22:07,139
dead or if they're trapped in trouble or

530
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:08,519
if they're safe somewhere because of

531
00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:11,490
poor communication these are exactly the

532
00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:13,350
sorts of cases that psychics should be

533
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:15,600
first on the ground for right is that

534
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:18,570
this is this is a real world case where

535
00:22:22,970 --> 00:22:21,090
if you can find missing persons you can

536
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:22,980
save these search and rescue teams

537
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:24,000
countless

538
00:22:29,210 --> 00:22:26,970
hours of fruitless labour but by finding

539
00:22:31,220 --> 00:22:29,220
these people but yeah I think their

540
00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:31,230
their absences is conspicuous and

541
00:22:35,810 --> 00:22:32,790
telling well there's an old expression

542
00:22:37,910 --> 00:22:35,820
that we use frequently here what if it

543
00:22:39,980 --> 00:22:37,920
were true we play the scenario okay

544
00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:39,990
let's let's envisage a world where your

545
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:41,910
claim be it psychic detective or

546
00:22:45,620 --> 00:22:43,650
predicting the future or word of

547
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:45,630
divining or whatever what if it was true

548
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:47,130
what if that's the way physics and the

549
00:22:51,020 --> 00:22:48,720
universe really worked we'd expect to

550
00:22:53,780 --> 00:22:51,030
see this this this and this it's a good

551
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:53,790
mind exercise absolutely that's

552
00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:56,250
brilliant I love it well Ben thank you

553
00:23:01,100 --> 00:22:58,050
so much for sparing a little bit of time

554
00:23:03,770 --> 00:23:01,110
all the way from New Mexico one day Ben

555
00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:03,780
one day people can hear your podcast

556
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:06,750
where can they hear your podcast we are

557
00:23:12,140 --> 00:23:09,210
at squaring the strange you can also

558
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:12,150
find us on facebook on itunes lips in

559
00:23:17,570 --> 00:23:16,170
various other podcast e places and I am

560
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:17,580
of course bouncing around I'm doing

561
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:19,410
articles and columns and blogs and

562
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:21,810
whatnot I do have a new book coming out

563
00:23:24,770 --> 00:23:22,710
in a few months

564
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:24,780
titled investigating ghosts which is

565
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:28,050
specifically on ghost investigations and

566
00:23:33,530 --> 00:23:30,960
yeah I'm just I'm still just slogging

567
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:33,540
away the skeptics thing is as you have

568
00:23:37,310 --> 00:23:35,250
for many years as well my friend and

569
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:37,320
it's much appreciated that's great Ben

570
00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:39,210
will give my best to Pascual he does a

571
00:23:45,610 --> 00:23:41,670
great job co-hosting with you and the

572
00:23:48,860 --> 00:23:45,620
the ever interesting Celestia Ward

573
00:23:51,050 --> 00:23:48,870
indeed I'll do so Ben Radford thank you

574
00:23:54,020 --> 00:23:51,060
very much thank you very much Richard oh

575
00:24:10,170 --> 00:24:06,770
[Music]

576
00:24:13,020 --> 00:24:10,180
hi this is dr. Pamela gay from astronomy

577
00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:13,030
cast each week Fraser Cain and I take

578
00:24:17,130 --> 00:24:14,950
our listeners on a fact-based journey

579
00:24:19,890 --> 00:24:17,140
through the cosmos with our weekly

580
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:19,900
podcast we explain not just what we know

581
00:24:25,530 --> 00:24:22,690
but how we know what we know about this

582
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:25,540
universe that we share check us out at

583
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:28,000
astronomy cast calm and look for us in

584
00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:30,400
itunes google play and wherever you

585
00:24:36,650 --> 00:24:33,110
download podcasts see online

586
00:24:38,940 --> 00:24:36,660
[Music]

587
00:24:46,730 --> 00:24:38,950
[Applause]

588
00:24:52,410 --> 00:24:49,590
Australian first penalties for male

589
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:52,420
hormone clinic and this story comes to

590
00:24:57,570 --> 00:24:54,970
us from sceptics calm au written by Tim

591
00:25:02,640 --> 00:24:57,580
mendon published on the 5th of October

592
00:25:05,910 --> 00:25:02,650
2017 wellness enterprises proprietary

593
00:25:08,670 --> 00:25:05,920
limited which traded as Australian male

594
00:25:10,590 --> 00:25:08,680
hormone clinic has been fined one

595
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:10,600
hundred and twenty seven thousand five

596
00:25:15,710 --> 00:25:12,730
hundred dollars plus costs after being

597
00:25:18,830 --> 00:25:15,720
found guilty and convicted of 17 charges

598
00:25:21,630 --> 00:25:18,840
related to unlawful advertising of

599
00:25:22,980 --> 00:25:21,640
regulated health services charges

600
00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:22,990
brought by the Australian health

601
00:25:28,530 --> 00:25:26,140
practitioner regulatory agency AHPRA

602
00:25:30,510 --> 00:25:28,540
followed advertisements the business

603
00:25:33,090 --> 00:25:30,520
published in newspapers around Australia

604
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:33,100
between February and August 2017 for

605
00:25:38,190 --> 00:25:35,650
treatment of testosterone deficiency the

606
00:25:40,860 --> 00:25:38,200
full page ad vitória style

607
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:40,870
advertisements made a number of claims

608
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:42,850
about the benefits of treatment

609
00:25:48,210 --> 00:25:45,600
including increased energy focused

610
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:48,220
masculinity and strength and the ability

611
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:51,760
to satisfy sexual partners AHPRA

612
00:25:57,330 --> 00:25:54,010
challenged the validity of the claims

613
00:26:00,150 --> 00:25:57,340
citing best available evidence in what

614
00:26:01,980 --> 00:26:00,160
the AHPRA describes as quote and

615
00:26:03,780 --> 00:26:01,990
Australian first end quote the

616
00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:03,790
corporation was found guilty and

617
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:06,910
convicted on 17 charges magistrate

618
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:09,520
atkinson cited the seriousness of the

619
00:26:14,550 --> 00:26:12,720
offenses in fining the corporation

620
00:26:16,830 --> 00:26:14,560
$75,000 on each charge

621
00:26:18,750 --> 00:26:16,840
totaling one hundred and twenty seven

622
00:26:20,730 --> 00:26:18,760
thousand five hundred dollars the

623
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:20,740
corporation was also ordered to pay

624
00:26:25,380 --> 00:26:23,170
court costs of three thousand dollars

625
00:26:28,110 --> 00:26:25,390
and professional costs of up to three

626
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:28,120
thousand dollars this is the first time

627
00:26:32,970 --> 00:26:30,730
that a corporation not an individual

628
00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:32,980
health practitioner has been convicted

629
00:26:36,330 --> 00:26:35,350
following advertising charges brought by

630
00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:36,340
the AHPRA

631
00:26:41,910 --> 00:26:39,190
under Section 133 of the National Law

632
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:41,920
one issue is that wellness enterprises

633
00:26:47,010 --> 00:26:44,170
was placed in voluntary liquidation on

634
00:26:51,090 --> 00:26:47,020
September the 12th and it is uncertain

635
00:26:53,730 --> 00:26:51,100
if it will ever pay the fine section 133

636
00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:53,740
of the National law states that a person

637
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:56,110
must not advertise a regulated health

638
00:26:59,549 --> 00:26:57,490
service or a business

639
00:27:03,030 --> 00:26:59,559
that provides a regulated health service

640
00:27:05,370 --> 00:27:03,040
in a way that point is false misleading

641
00:27:08,430 --> 00:27:05,380
or deceptive or likely to be misleading

642
00:27:11,070 --> 00:27:08,440
or deceptive or point offers a gift

643
00:27:13,530 --> 00:27:11,080
discount or other inducement to attract

644
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:13,540
a person to use the service or business

645
00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:16,450
unless the advertisement also states the

646
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:19,230
terms and conditions of the author or

647
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:22,510
point uses testimonials or purported

648
00:27:26,940 --> 00:27:24,370
testimonials about the service or

649
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:26,950
business or point creates an

650
00:27:32,220 --> 00:27:29,200
unreasonable expectation now of

651
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:32,230
beneficial treatment or point directly

652
00:27:36,380 --> 00:27:34,240
or indirectly encourages the

653
00:27:39,150 --> 00:27:36,390
indiscriminant or unnecessary use of

654
00:27:41,220 --> 00:27:39,160
regulated health services a person or

655
00:27:43,799 --> 00:27:41,230
business providing a regulated health

656
00:27:46,380 --> 00:27:43,809
service whose advertising breaches the

657
00:27:49,380 --> 00:27:46,390
national law may be prosecuted and

658
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:49,390
ordered by a court to pay $5,000 penalty

659
00:27:55,140 --> 00:27:52,690
per offense for an individual or a ten

660
00:27:58,049 --> 00:27:55,150
thousand dollar penalty per offense for

661
00:27:59,940 --> 00:27:58,059
a body corporate when a registered

662
00:28:02,820 --> 00:27:59,950
health practitioner has breached the

663
00:28:05,220 --> 00:28:02,830
advertising requirements a national

664
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:05,230
board may also decide that this raises

665
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:07,570
concern about the practitioners conduct

666
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:10,000
action under the national law can

667
00:28:13,799 --> 00:28:12,250
include placing restrictions on an

668
00:28:16,770 --> 00:28:13,809
individual health practitioners

669
00:28:19,070 --> 00:28:16,780
registration which may affect their

670
00:28:22,169 --> 00:28:19,080
ability to advertise their services

671
00:28:24,690 --> 00:28:22,179
regulated health service means a service

672
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:24,700
provided by or usually provided by a

673
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,010
health practitioner as defined in the

674
00:28:31,620 --> 00:28:29,679
National Law the advertising provisions

675
00:28:33,390 --> 00:28:31,630
of the national law cover the

676
00:28:35,549 --> 00:28:33,400
advertising of a regulated health

677
00:28:37,210 --> 00:28:35,559
service or a business that provides a

678
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:37,220
regulated health service

679
00:28:42,090 --> 00:28:39,850
[Music]

680
00:28:44,970 --> 00:28:42,100
and accompanying the story at skeptics

681
00:28:48,390 --> 00:28:44,980
dot-com today you is a picture of one of

682
00:28:50,850 --> 00:28:48,400
the advertisements mentioned full page

683
00:28:52,970 --> 00:28:50,860
it says breakthrough hope has arrived

684
00:28:56,420 --> 00:28:52,980
for men over 30 with low testosterone

685
00:28:58,920 --> 00:28:56,430
now as part of a new health dr

686
00:29:01,200 --> 00:28:58,930
australian male hormone clinic is

687
00:29:05,130 --> 00:29:01,210
offering free medical assessments

688
00:29:08,390 --> 00:29:05,140
limited number of places available so

689
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:08,400
there you go a good case of people

690
00:29:14,820 --> 00:29:10,570
advertising something that they can't

691
00:29:15,410 --> 00:29:14,830
deliver being chased and prosecuted by

692
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:15,420
the lord

693
00:29:29,460 --> 00:29:27,760
[Music]

694
00:29:32,860 --> 00:29:29,470
[Applause]

695
00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:32,870
calling all skeptics or listeners do you

696
00:29:37,570 --> 00:29:35,270
live end or near Glasgow or are you

697
00:29:39,789 --> 00:29:37,580
planning to visit something then you're

698
00:29:43,180 --> 00:29:39,799
in luck because the Glasgow skeptics

699
00:29:44,350 --> 00:29:43,190
have got your Monday nights sorted we

700
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:44,360
are committed to filling up every

701
00:29:49,930 --> 00:29:47,090
available Monday night talks on science

702
00:29:52,269 --> 00:29:49,940
and skepticism huh speakers include the

703
00:29:54,490 --> 00:29:52,279
Eugenie Scott jelly coin maker Marshall

704
00:29:57,639 --> 00:29:54,500
Nate Phelps Tom and Cecil from cognitive

705
00:29:59,980 --> 00:29:57,649
dissonance PZ Myers Richard Wiseman AC

706
00:30:02,529 --> 00:29:59,990
grilling nor Heath and Eli from the

707
00:30:04,810 --> 00:30:02,539
scaling atheist Simon Singh Rebecca

708
00:30:07,630 --> 00:30:04,820
Watson and a multitude of local

709
00:30:09,519 --> 00:30:07,640
academics and skeptics there's literally

710
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:09,529
nothing better you can do on a Monday

711
00:30:13,930 --> 00:30:11,600
night in Glasgow it doesn't involve

712
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:13,940
taking your clothes off so come join us

713
00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:15,919
we've also got a vibrant online

714
00:30:19,870 --> 00:30:18,049
community you can find us on Facebook

715
00:30:22,930 --> 00:30:19,880
Twitter and get involved with the

716
00:30:24,970 --> 00:30:22,940
discussion Glasgow skeptics self-help

717
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:24,980
for your brain

718
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:26,250
[Music]

719
00:30:50,940 --> 00:30:42,130
let's all take this with a grain of salt

720
00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:50,950
here's around ticket Leo Eagle a very

721
00:30:53,460 --> 00:30:51,910
nice to see you again

722
00:30:56,490 --> 00:30:53,470
Ida nice to see you it's time in Poland

723
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:56,500
yes we are here for the European skeptic

724
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:58,480
is Congress yep you've spoken even a

725
00:31:04,200 --> 00:30:59,760
talk today what would you talk about

726
00:31:05,970 --> 00:31:04,210
well I spoke about how religion religion

727
00:31:08,610 --> 00:31:05,980
here now defined as Christianity in

728
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:08,620
Islam how religion is hampering

729
00:31:13,230 --> 00:31:11,250
scientific thinking you know because

730
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:13,240
particularly as situated within the

731
00:31:17,790 --> 00:31:15,730
discourse the discussion about or the

732
00:31:20,820 --> 00:31:17,800
study of Africa because the notion there

733
00:31:23,130 --> 00:31:20,830
is that the Christian Islam these are

734
00:31:26,100 --> 00:31:23,140
modernizing forces and when you hear

735
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:26,110
modernizing you expect forces that could

736
00:31:33,420 --> 00:31:30,250
dispel magic and superstition but for me

737
00:31:35,030 --> 00:31:33,430
that doesn't hold because religion

738
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:35,040
Christianity and Islam arada

739
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:37,570
superstition and forcing mechanisms and

740
00:31:43,770 --> 00:31:40,810
ideology so and I tried to illustrate

741
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:43,780
this using certain cases like claims and

742
00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:46,480
reports where people turn into gold you

743
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:49,840
could get back to frog sources and and

744
00:31:54,450 --> 00:31:51,760
even we those who call themselves

745
00:31:56,190 --> 00:31:54,460
Christian pastors the claim they

746
00:32:00,270 --> 00:31:56,200
resurrected people from the dead and one

747
00:32:03,420 --> 00:32:00,280
claim that he walked on and and also we

748
00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:03,430
have Islamic Malibu's they are now there

749
00:32:06,090 --> 00:32:05,440
are the producers of Angie bullets

750
00:32:09,540 --> 00:32:06,100
chance

751
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:09,550
so christianism a kind of appropriation

752
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:10,480
or reappropriation

753
00:32:14,340 --> 00:32:12,490
taking over some of the roles and

754
00:32:16,290 --> 00:32:14,350
marketed some of these paranormal claims

755
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:16,300
that we associated with traditional

756
00:32:21,780 --> 00:32:18,970
superstitious beliefs so that's why my

757
00:32:23,460 --> 00:32:21,790
argument here today is that no Christian

758
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:23,470
is an Islam they are not modernizing

759
00:32:28,620 --> 00:32:26,290
forces they're actually reinforcing the

760
00:32:32,820 --> 00:32:28,630
Dark Age superstitious and devious

761
00:32:34,890 --> 00:32:32,830
blips so this sounds to a western ear

762
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:34,900
yeah that sounds a little bit obvious

763
00:32:39,660 --> 00:32:37,330
yeah so you're speaking about it

764
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:39,670
specifically within the context of of

765
00:32:43,950 --> 00:32:42,130
Africa which is not just where you were

766
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:43,960
born in Nigeria but also your field of

767
00:32:52,020 --> 00:32:46,000
study you've just completed your PhD a

768
00:32:54,410 --> 00:32:52,030
PhD is about actually mantises analyzed

769
00:32:58,220 --> 00:32:54,420
and explained accusations of witchcraft

770
00:33:00,470 --> 00:32:58,230
from the accused perspective because

771
00:33:02,790 --> 00:33:00,480
overwhelmingly the studies are big

772
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:02,800
studies have looked at accusation to

773
00:33:06,780 --> 00:33:04,960
have studied accusation scholars of

774
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:06,790
studied accusation from the accusers

775
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:08,530
perspective and they have tried to

776
00:33:14,820 --> 00:33:12,010
analyze the situation in Africa at a

777
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:14,830
situation where those who use witchcraft

778
00:33:21,390 --> 00:33:18,130
Assad power are the definers of morality

779
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:21,400
definers of social order but they ignore

780
00:33:27,290 --> 00:33:23,890
the fact that there are people who these

781
00:33:30,450 --> 00:33:27,300
accusations are applied and these people

782
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:30,460
suffer a lot and be a family

783
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:32,410
relationship is social relationship

784
00:33:36,900 --> 00:33:34,930
suffer a loss and mr. Moran I looked at

785
00:33:39,570 --> 00:33:36,910
accusation from that huge perspective

786
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:39,580
and how the negotiate accusation in such

787
00:33:46,140 --> 00:33:42,640
cases and you've just completed it so I

788
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:46,150
can call you dr. Lior equate now yes you

789
00:33:51,270 --> 00:33:49,120
can call me that they said that until

790
00:33:53,820 --> 00:33:51,280
you submit the corrected version of your

791
00:33:56,250 --> 00:33:53,830
thesis and they're now issue you that

792
00:33:59,070 --> 00:33:56,260
certificate in other words if you have

793
00:34:01,920 --> 00:33:59,080
not issued a certificate you should just

794
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:01,930
hold on answering a doctor even though

795
00:34:13,530 --> 00:34:04,330
you have all the rights okay Richard do

796
00:34:15,180 --> 00:34:13,540
not release this interview until you've

797
00:34:17,369 --> 00:34:15,190
been associated with this area skeptics

798
00:34:18,990 --> 00:34:17,379
for a very long time yeah you you've

799
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:19,000
been writing for a magazine for probably

800
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:22,960
what 12 13 years yeah you visited

801
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:27,010
Australia in 2011 yeah

802
00:34:31,620 --> 00:34:29,290
and it was a very successful tour of

803
00:34:33,389 --> 00:34:31,630
Australia yeah is there anything that

804
00:34:34,889 --> 00:34:33,399
you anything that you want to say to the

805
00:34:37,879 --> 00:34:34,899
sceptics of Australia who are listening

806
00:34:41,070 --> 00:34:37,889
to this in terms of how I mean clearly

807
00:34:44,610 --> 00:34:41,080
the situation in Africa in particular

808
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:44,620
yeah is significantly worse by any

809
00:34:49,470 --> 00:34:47,649
measure yeah then the situation that we

810
00:34:51,570 --> 00:34:49,480
as skeptics in the western counties yes

811
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:51,580
what can we as skeptics in the West who

812
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:53,649
care about not just our little patch of

813
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:55,510
the of the wood just but we also care

814
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:56,530
about what's happening around the world

815
00:35:03,450 --> 00:34:58,720
in particular Africa what can we do to

816
00:35:06,450 --> 00:35:03,460
assist today like that saying the world

817
00:35:08,970 --> 00:35:06,460
is a global village Australia used to be

818
00:35:10,380 --> 00:35:08,980
far from us even by the time you get by

819
00:35:11,850 --> 00:35:10,390
the time I was invited to visit those

820
00:35:13,740 --> 00:35:11,860
felt like was that Wow

821
00:35:15,210 --> 00:35:13,750
because when I look at the map it's like

822
00:35:16,830 --> 00:35:15,220
no nothing will ever take me to this

823
00:35:18,270 --> 00:35:16,840
part of the world you know because I

824
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:18,280
didn't have the money and the

825
00:35:22,140 --> 00:35:20,050
connections and the people there who

826
00:35:24,780 --> 00:35:22,150
knows literally we live in understand

827
00:35:26,700 --> 00:35:24,790
what's going on in Africa not getting

828
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:26,710
interested but I think that this is

829
00:35:32,490 --> 00:35:30,610
changing so the world is not far apart

830
00:35:36,420 --> 00:35:32,500
as far apart as you used to be or as we

831
00:35:38,370 --> 00:35:36,430
think you know the world it used to be

832
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:38,380
or something so but what I'm saying is

833
00:35:43,050 --> 00:35:40,240
that we are coming closer and this is

834
00:35:45,150 --> 00:35:43,060
happening in Africa get publicized

835
00:35:47,010 --> 00:35:45,160
people get to know in Australia you know

836
00:35:50,250 --> 00:35:47,020
now quicker values to be the same case

837
00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:50,260
and I used to be the case so I think

838
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:53,350
that it is important that those skeptics

839
00:35:58,170 --> 00:35:56,050
in Australia also keep highlights in

840
00:35:59,760 --> 00:35:58,180
what is happening in Africa particularly

841
00:36:01,200 --> 00:35:59,770
when it comes to superstition when it

842
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:01,210
comes to paranormal claims and let me

843
00:36:04,830 --> 00:36:03,130
let me tell you why it's very important

844
00:36:07,830 --> 00:36:04,840
if you if you have been following the

845
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:07,840
trend in Europe today they they are

846
00:36:11,580 --> 00:36:09,850
trying to addressing the problem of

847
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:11,590
witchcraft within the migrant

848
00:36:15,390 --> 00:36:13,810
communities yes a lot of people are

849
00:36:17,310 --> 00:36:15,400
leaving and I understand Australia is

850
00:36:19,380 --> 00:36:17,320
also a country where you have a lot of

851
00:36:19,830 --> 00:36:19,390
people coming from other regions of the

852
00:36:22,530 --> 00:36:19,840
world

853
00:36:23,410 --> 00:36:22,540
and when they come they come with their

854
00:36:26,049 --> 00:36:23,420
beliefs

855
00:36:27,460 --> 00:36:26,059
and apparently they may not actually on

856
00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:27,470
arrival when they're still being treated

857
00:36:31,390 --> 00:36:29,839
as refugees or process may be really

858
00:36:33,099 --> 00:36:31,400
relaxed on practice those yet believes

859
00:36:35,380 --> 00:36:33,109
but as soon as they begin to settle down

860
00:36:37,210 --> 00:36:35,390
the side reconnected and they start

861
00:36:38,349 --> 00:36:37,220
openly manifesting those beliefs and I

862
00:36:40,539 --> 00:36:38,359
clearly just believe they could be

863
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:40,549
traditional beliefs so Australian

864
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:42,410
skeptics could not just be looking at

865
00:36:48,579 --> 00:36:45,049
these issues like superstition and

866
00:36:48,970 --> 00:36:48,589
religious extremism or things happening

867
00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:48,980
out there

868
00:36:53,829 --> 00:36:51,920
yeah because the way through migration

869
00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:53,839
and through a lot of influences

870
00:36:58,779 --> 00:36:56,720
sometimes online influences many people

871
00:37:00,400 --> 00:36:58,789
who are in Australia may also be

872
00:37:02,980 --> 00:37:00,410
affected so it's important they

873
00:37:04,900 --> 00:37:02,990
understand that it is not just happening

874
00:37:08,289 --> 00:37:04,910
in Africa it could also happen in

875
00:37:12,220 --> 00:37:08,299
Australia so it we should see we should

876
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:12,230
bring a global angle to scepticism rabbi

877
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:14,210
we try to highlight some of these issues

878
00:37:17,710 --> 00:37:16,250
so because they may actually be

879
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:17,720
happening in Australia while you may not

880
00:37:22,089 --> 00:37:20,450
know yeah they may see they may simply

881
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:22,099
have me but you may not know so it is

882
00:37:27,490 --> 00:37:25,490
all important that we're not just focus

883
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:27,500
on you could boss trillion skepticism

884
00:37:31,990 --> 00:37:30,170
will give it a global touch a global

885
00:37:33,940 --> 00:37:32,000
angle a global perspective my

886
00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:33,950
highlighting was going on in other parts

887
00:37:37,749 --> 00:37:35,839
of the world okay now on a personal

888
00:37:41,499 --> 00:37:37,759
level so you've not really finished your

889
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:41,509
PhD yeah it took a while now what next

890
00:37:48,009 --> 00:37:47,450
for you I think is going in two

891
00:37:50,829 --> 00:37:48,019
directions

892
00:37:53,589 --> 00:37:50,839
I would love to get I would like to have

893
00:37:56,589 --> 00:37:53,599
it that way I would like to be doing

894
00:37:59,680 --> 00:37:56,599
some postdoctoral work seal going back

895
00:38:02,079 --> 00:37:59,690
to look at the phenomena of witchcraft

896
00:38:05,950 --> 00:38:02,089
from other perspectives that's one

897
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:05,960
interest the notion of no religion no

898
00:38:09,999 --> 00:38:08,690
religion is also a fueled an imagined

899
00:38:12,279 --> 00:38:10,009
field where I am trying to do that

900
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:12,289
because Africa has always been described

901
00:38:17,980 --> 00:38:15,410
in religious of magical terms so but we

902
00:38:20,049 --> 00:38:17,990
have no religious people not religious

903
00:38:22,210 --> 00:38:20,059
Africans today imagine so I'm trying to

904
00:38:22,930 --> 00:38:22,220
look at that field and see if I could at

905
00:38:25,779 --> 00:38:22,940
least

906
00:38:27,849 --> 00:38:25,789
pioneer some study in that area so these

907
00:38:29,170 --> 00:38:27,859
are two topics that I find of interest

908
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:29,180
and of course they're also of interest

909
00:38:34,490 --> 00:38:32,130
to me in terms of my activism you know

910
00:38:36,140 --> 00:38:34,500
Amma's are trying to see how the

911
00:38:38,509 --> 00:38:36,150
knowledge we've generated in terms of

912
00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:38,519
the research in witchcraft accusation

913
00:38:43,279 --> 00:38:41,190
could help to change the situation cool

914
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:43,289
how serve a lot of people who help

915
00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:45,690
provide support to some people you know

916
00:38:52,250 --> 00:38:48,000
who are being victimized in them of

917
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:52,260
witchcraft so I have my my life going

918
00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:54,210
into it in these two directions and I

919
00:39:00,349 --> 00:38:56,730
hope to keep it that way you know as

920
00:39:05,839 --> 00:39:00,359
long as I can okay so it sounds like

921
00:39:07,099 --> 00:39:05,849
your activism will continue and some of

922
00:39:09,970 --> 00:39:07,109
our listeners may know that you've

923
00:39:12,289 --> 00:39:09,980
actually put yourself in physical danger

924
00:39:14,450 --> 00:39:12,299
which is something that skeptics in the

925
00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:14,460
West generally done don't face I mean we

926
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:16,260
face some nasty comments on Facebook but

927
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:19,410
yeah but maybe you can quickly tell us

928
00:39:25,970 --> 00:39:23,490
about what happened is that there are

929
00:39:28,430 --> 00:39:25,980
people with vested interests in

930
00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:28,440
superstitious Africa there are people

931
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:30,510
with vested interests in the in the

932
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:32,970
dogmatic Africa and who feel threatened

933
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:36,000
by the critical Africa by the skeptical

934
00:39:40,700 --> 00:39:38,400
Africa in other words Africans who

935
00:39:42,349 --> 00:39:40,710
questioned African superstitious

936
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:42,359
believed era there are people who feel

937
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:43,890
threatened and these are sometimes

938
00:39:46,940 --> 00:39:45,839
medicine men these are sometimes pastors

939
00:39:50,539 --> 00:39:46,950
these are sometimes

940
00:39:53,690 --> 00:39:50,549
shakes Malibu's because they don't just

941
00:39:55,339 --> 00:39:53,700
have vested interests in superstitious

942
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:55,349
religious Africa just for the sake of a

943
00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:58,410
BIA because is also a narrative of power

944
00:40:01,819 --> 00:40:00,240
is also a business narrative nor was

945
00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:01,829
there generate money for me major

946
00:40:06,380 --> 00:40:04,740
political importance from it and and

947
00:40:07,730 --> 00:40:06,390
they will no want to lose because change

948
00:40:10,279 --> 00:40:07,740
will mean that they have to lose this

949
00:40:12,859 --> 00:40:10,289
status yeah so these people that they

950
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:12,869
react with hostility towards anybody who

951
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:14,730
tries to challenge these narratives and

952
00:40:20,269 --> 00:40:16,650
their views and you if they've used that

953
00:40:22,279 --> 00:40:20,279
the the state against abuse the state

954
00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:22,289
against me they have attacked me they

955
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:24,089
have threatened and attacked me

956
00:40:28,099 --> 00:40:26,250
only at all bye and here I'm talking

957
00:40:30,380 --> 00:40:28,109
about the Liberty Gospel Church and

958
00:40:32,769 --> 00:40:30,390
they mobilize the church members and in

959
00:40:34,460 --> 00:40:32,779
the developer we organize an event and

960
00:40:36,140 --> 00:40:34,470
took me to court

961
00:40:38,210 --> 00:40:36,150
they even though they lost then they

962
00:40:40,309 --> 00:40:38,220
also have used the stage by trying to

963
00:40:41,870 --> 00:40:40,319
make the state understand that by

964
00:40:43,340 --> 00:40:41,880
highlighting some of this problem we are

965
00:40:45,620 --> 00:40:43,350
giving this set a bad name

966
00:40:48,860 --> 00:40:45,630
so this is this is how you actually

967
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:48,870
ended up in prison at some point yes yes

968
00:40:52,850 --> 00:40:50,240
because because what happened is that

969
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:52,860
state officials were not happy the fur

970
00:40:58,580 --> 00:40:54,330
that they could clamp down on us and

971
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:58,590
they arrested me as I said and they took

972
00:41:02,150 --> 00:41:00,240
me and the detent being at the place a

973
00:41:05,660 --> 00:41:02,160
mile I was staying there for two or

974
00:41:09,530 --> 00:41:05,670
three days with suspects and criminals

975
00:41:10,970 --> 00:41:09,540
and order so but yeah personally I never

976
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:10,980
expected it was going to be a small

977
00:41:14,030 --> 00:41:12,810
right from the beginning I knew that was

978
00:41:15,710 --> 00:41:14,040
going to be challenges even though I

979
00:41:17,570 --> 00:41:15,720
didn't know exactly what which what the

980
00:41:19,550 --> 00:41:17,580
nature of the challenges would be but

981
00:41:22,610 --> 00:41:19,560
when the challenges we are coming I

982
00:41:25,100 --> 00:41:22,620
think I had an idea that I was going to

983
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:25,110
face a lot stiff resistance from a lot

984
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:27,330
from people who have vested interest the

985
00:41:32,930 --> 00:41:29,760
superstitious dogmatic and irrational

986
00:41:34,820 --> 00:41:32,940
Africa yeah well I admire your

987
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:34,830
persistence and I wish you all the best

988
00:41:37,940 --> 00:41:37,050
and so great to see you again I hope to

989
00:41:40,220 --> 00:41:37,950
see you again in the not-too-distant

990
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:40,230
future yeah thank you so much Andy I

991
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:42,570
also want to thank Australian skeptics

992
00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:46,290
for the support they gave me and I will

993
00:41:52,730 --> 00:41:48,540
never forget it and let me say this I

994
00:41:55,610 --> 00:41:52,740
will never forget the fact that you and

995
00:41:58,640 --> 00:41:55,620
other friends put through a call to a

996
00:42:01,250 --> 00:41:58,650
police station where I was detained some

997
00:42:04,370 --> 00:42:01,260
time and I know that that call made a

998
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:04,380
difference yes because locals when they

999
00:42:08,420 --> 00:42:06,720
are when they are trying to be funny

1000
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:08,430
they always afraid of anything

1001
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:10,800
international they don't want that they

1002
00:42:15,350 --> 00:42:12,330
want to do everything on their maybe

1003
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:15,360
pi/8 and let nobody get to know so when

1004
00:42:19,010 --> 00:42:17,490
they know that all the outside world has

1005
00:42:21,260 --> 00:42:19,020
got to know about this they become very

1006
00:42:24,410 --> 00:42:21,270
careful they try to do it so I know that

1007
00:42:26,270 --> 00:42:24,420
I got a phone call from the an official

1008
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:26,280
from the Australian from the Australian

1009
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:29,250
Embassy in Nigeria and I know sort of

1010
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:31,170
what you do and I know that it made a

1011
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:33,770
difference and I want to tell you

1012
00:42:41,730 --> 00:42:38,170
Australia skeptics I knew you were we

1013
00:42:52,050 --> 00:42:41,740
never never forget excellent thank you

1014
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:52,060
very much Leah a pleasure the skeptic

1015
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:54,160
magazine the journal from Australian

1016
00:42:59,580 --> 00:42:57,130
skeptics subscribe online to the world's

1017
00:43:05,540 --> 00:42:59,590
second oldest skeptical magazine

1018
00:43:13,620 --> 00:43:09,660
you can also find there over 30 years on

1019
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:13,630
back issues free to download the skeptic

1020
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:22,720
magazine from Australian skeptics on

1021
00:43:37,470 --> 00:43:34,330
Manor comm don't you hey you we are

1022
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:37,480
doing a live bunga bunga at the Herald

1023
00:43:41,860 --> 00:43:38,570
Park Hotel

1024
00:43:47,890 --> 00:43:41,870
[Music]

1025
00:43:50,350 --> 00:43:47,900
oh my god oh my god I know bunga bunga

1026
00:43:53,140 --> 00:43:50,360
live if you want to be part of us

1027
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:53,150
recording an entire episode of bunga

1028
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:55,040
bunga well you'll be invited to make

1029
00:43:59,710 --> 00:43:56,690
your own comments you'll be invited to

1030
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:59,720
ask us questions the crank mail section

1031
00:44:02,380 --> 00:44:01,040
we're throwing it over to you we're

1032
00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:02,390
gonna be doing it live in front of

1033
00:44:05,860 --> 00:44:04,160
people there'll be special guests we've

1034
00:44:07,690 --> 00:44:05,870
decided to go live

1035
00:44:10,290 --> 00:44:07,700
definitely worth putting in your diary

1036
00:44:13,210 --> 00:44:10,300
it's gonna be at the Herald Park Hotel

1037
00:44:14,860 --> 00:44:13,220
upstairs in Sydney and if you think

1038
00:44:17,110 --> 00:44:14,870
getting upstairs is a problem for you

1039
00:44:18,940 --> 00:44:17,120
wait till you see how they winch me and

1040
00:44:21,580 --> 00:44:18,950
from the helicopter yes that's right

1041
00:44:24,580 --> 00:44:21,590
it's the festival of dumb ideas at the

1042
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:24,590
Hammer Park Hotel the 14th of November

1043
00:44:31,450 --> 00:44:27,650
really soon get tickets now tickets are

1044
00:44:33,490 --> 00:44:31,460
available at Tri booking.com or all

1045
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:33,500
information you need is on the front

1046
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:37,010
page of Maynard comm that I you see you

1047
00:44:41,410 --> 00:44:37,490
there

1048
00:44:43,180 --> 00:44:41,420
bring your crank mail bring your mom if

1049
00:44:44,380 --> 00:44:43,190
you do like it we're gonna do it about

1050
00:44:46,780 --> 00:44:44,390
once a month at me too

1051
00:44:49,630 --> 00:44:46,790
yeah yeah if people come along we want

1052
00:44:51,340 --> 00:44:49,640
to do one live bunga bunga or a month so

1053
00:44:53,050 --> 00:44:51,350
you get the comedy you get the music you

1054
00:44:54,850 --> 00:44:53,060
get the fun you get the insights you get

1055
00:44:59,710 --> 00:44:54,860
the opinions you get the politics and

1056
00:45:01,480 --> 00:44:59,720
you get the pants all the information at

1057
00:45:03,250 --> 00:45:01,490
Maynard com that are you and it's all

1058
00:45:05,110 --> 00:45:03,260
there for you or go to the bunga bunga

1059
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:05,120
Facebook page and it's all happening on

1060
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:23,550
hello skeptics and listeners this is

1061
00:45:28,410 --> 00:45:26,800
susan gerbic and I'm in Italy I have a

1062
00:45:30,810 --> 00:45:28,420
really interesting interview with you

1063
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:30,820
from one of the one of the staff here at

1064
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:33,970
chica hello my name is Kayla I'm a

1065
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:36,610
volunteer and I'm here at the kick up

1066
00:45:42,690 --> 00:45:40,960
conference and I just handled the North

1067
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:42,700
Italy territories but I'm here twice

1068
00:45:47,850 --> 00:45:45,250
today and we've had so many people at

1069
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:47,860
the conference we have 800 people about

1070
00:45:52,890 --> 00:45:50,410
800 people yesterday and we expect more

1071
00:45:55,260 --> 00:45:52,900
people today and tomorrow conferencing

1072
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:55,270
is in two theaters so this is a very big

1073
00:46:00,360 --> 00:45:57,520
event and we have a lot of very

1074
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:00,370
important guests and many young people

1075
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:02,290
coming to see them which is absolutely

1076
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:06,610
amazing I believe we have the honor to

1077
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:09,610
have Keo Angela here and he's one of our

1078
00:46:17,340 --> 00:46:14,530
founders and he started doing science

1079
00:46:20,100 --> 00:46:17,350
talking about science to people on TV

1080
00:46:23,730 --> 00:46:20,110
it is Saturday years ago when tens of

1081
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:23,740
years ago when when we had very few

1082
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:26,410
channels TV channels in Italy so

1083
00:46:31,940 --> 00:46:29,410
everybody knows him and we all grow

1084
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:31,950
we've all grown up with him and

1085
00:46:36,930 --> 00:46:34,690
everybody loves me he's like our father

1086
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:36,940
or grandfather and if you talk to

1087
00:46:40,740 --> 00:46:38,800
anybody here they would say I've grown

1088
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:40,750
up with him on my TV is talking about

1089
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:43,210
science and he doesn't be in such a

1090
00:46:48,030 --> 00:46:46,090
simple but accurate way it's it's so

1091
00:46:50,730 --> 00:46:48,040
good because this is bringing science to

1092
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:50,740
people in a way they can understand and

1093
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:52,810
they can appreciate and he makes

1094
00:46:57,660 --> 00:46:55,810
everything interesting and what you re

1095
00:47:01,020 --> 00:46:57,670
doing about it what's very exciting is

1096
00:47:04,050 --> 00:47:01,030
seeing young teenagers queuing outside

1097
00:47:05,820 --> 00:47:04,060
of the theater to meet him and if you

1098
00:47:08,790 --> 00:47:05,830
talk about him to people here they just

1099
00:47:11,370 --> 00:47:08,800
their faces like hop and they just smile

1100
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:11,380
and I'm so happy to meet him we have

1101
00:47:17,490 --> 00:47:13,810
teenagers in tears because they are so

1102
00:47:19,130 --> 00:47:17,500
excited to see him and we are all trying

1103
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:19,140
to learn from him because

1104
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:23,370
he's such a kind person and he has this

1105
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:26,880
very simple way of talking to people

1106
00:47:32,660 --> 00:47:30,450
that really reaches them and and we want

1107
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:32,670
to learn from him and he's good for the

1108
00:47:37,970 --> 00:47:34,410
conference so far has been absolutely

1109
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:37,980
amazing and we've all enjoyed it we had

1110
00:47:45,380 --> 00:47:41,010
yesterday a nice a great show with

1111
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:45,390
musicians and two of our two scientists

1112
00:47:51,410 --> 00:47:48,330
to dr. spoke at the same time as the

1113
00:47:55,460 --> 00:47:51,420
musicians so they've done is kind of

1114
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:55,470
musical together with science talking

1115
00:47:59,500 --> 00:47:57,450
about science and I believe that was

1116
00:48:01,880 --> 00:47:59,510
also very great way to reach people

1117
00:48:04,130 --> 00:48:01,890
because if you can add we can show

1118
00:48:06,170 --> 00:48:04,140
people that you can have fun and talk

1119
00:48:07,790 --> 00:48:06,180
about science and learn new things and I

1120
00:48:09,830 --> 00:48:07,800
think that's also very important so

1121
00:48:12,530 --> 00:48:09,840
everything has been very excited so far

1122
00:48:14,870 --> 00:48:12,540
that exciting so far with all that I had

1123
00:48:18,500 --> 00:48:14,880
to believe in one really and this is

1124
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:18,510
just yes just a first full day yes yes

1125
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:21,690
yes and we are here tomorrow to hope

1126
00:48:27,290 --> 00:48:24,210
these people are going to have fun and

1127
00:48:29,390 --> 00:48:27,300
learn new things I'm really looking

1128
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:29,400
forward to tomorrow is when I speak so

1129
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:32,970
the entire conference is in Italian and

1130
00:48:38,060 --> 00:48:35,520
so this has been an experience for mark

1131
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:38,070
Edward and I because we don't speak any

1132
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:40,370
Italian but everybody's so friendly and

1133
00:48:46,790 --> 00:48:43,680
they they many people speak enough

1134
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:46,800
English that were fine I understand the

1135
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:49,920
Pope's coming in tomorrow yes yes so

1136
00:48:55,190 --> 00:48:51,930
that was a bit of a surprise this is a

1137
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:55,200
very small town the theatre is beautiful

1138
00:49:01,460 --> 00:48:58,050
and it's very very big but the town

1139
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:01,470
itself even if it's by the seaside is a

1140
00:49:09,350 --> 00:49:06,330
very small town and oh yes so the town

1141
00:49:11,810 --> 00:49:09,360
is Cesena and it's a very small town

1142
00:49:13,790 --> 00:49:11,820
near near the seaside bit far from the

1143
00:49:16,340 --> 00:49:13,800
coast compared to other towns but a

1144
00:49:18,860 --> 00:49:16,350
totally sick centre anyway and suddenly

1145
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:18,870
the Pope decided to visit is only going

1146
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:20,690
to be here a couple of hours but is

1147
00:49:25,490 --> 00:49:23,250
probably going to walk right in front of

1148
00:49:27,620 --> 00:49:25,500
the theatre where we are

1149
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:27,630
that is going to be a bit of a challenge

1150
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:32,730
I think but maybe some people will just

1151
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:42,860
the Pope's visiting because it's the

1152
00:49:49,550 --> 00:49:45,510
third 300th anniversary of the birth of

1153
00:49:52,250 --> 00:49:49,560
Pope Pius the 6th who was born in this

1154
00:49:55,340 --> 00:49:52,260
town and that's how come the Pope is

1155
00:50:12,740 --> 00:49:55,350
visiting tomorrow on a Sunday here so it

1156
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:12,750
should be really interesting hi this is

1157
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:14,730
Heidi Robertson from the Northern Rivers

1158
00:50:20,180 --> 00:50:17,970
vaccination supporters we are a group of

1159
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:20,190
concerned citizens dedicated to

1160
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:22,290
promoting good science and common sense

1161
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:24,930
in our region the far north coast of New

1162
00:50:30,290 --> 00:50:28,050
South Wales this area are famous for its

1163
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:30,300
natural beauty and relaxed lifestyle

1164
00:50:36,860 --> 00:50:32,970
also has the lowest rates of vaccination

1165
00:50:38,330 --> 00:50:36,870
in Australia we are out to change that

1166
00:50:41,060 --> 00:50:38,340
by challenging the myths and

1167
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:41,070
misinformation and by providing good

1168
00:50:46,130 --> 00:50:43,290
evidence-based information to the

1169
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:46,140
community we'd love for you no matter

1170
00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:48,570
where you are in the world to join our

1171
00:50:53,470 --> 00:50:51,730
fight please visit our web page at

1172
00:50:58,820 --> 00:50:53,480
[Music]

1173
00:51:02,630 --> 00:50:58,830
wwlp.com we also have a link there to

1174
00:51:06,380 --> 00:51:02,640
our Facebook page tweet us at in our

1175
00:51:08,290 --> 00:51:06,390
FAQs supporters that's vix and check us

1176
00:51:11,210 --> 00:51:08,300
out on wikipedia by searching for

1177
00:51:12,460 --> 00:51:11,220
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

1178
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:12,470
thank you

1179
00:51:33,319 --> 00:51:31,170
zone now here's some fabulous news if

1180
00:51:35,299 --> 00:51:33,329
you're in Sydney and you're coming to

1181
00:51:38,390 --> 00:51:35,309
the Australian skeptics convention

1182
00:51:40,910 --> 00:51:38,400
skeptic on or if you're not if you're

1183
00:51:43,039 --> 00:51:40,920
not if you are or if you're not you can

1184
00:51:45,849 --> 00:51:43,049
still come to the pre-conference drinks

1185
00:51:48,769 --> 00:51:45,859
and this will be at the Occidental hotel

1186
00:51:51,859 --> 00:51:48,779
at York Street Sydney where we normally

1187
00:51:55,279 --> 00:51:51,869
have skeptics in the pub Friday the 17th

1188
00:51:57,229 --> 00:51:55,289
of November details at skeptics calm

1189
00:51:59,989 --> 00:51:57,239
delay you you can mingle the speakers

1190
00:52:01,459 --> 00:51:59,999
mingle with other skeptics so whether

1191
00:52:03,650 --> 00:52:01,469
you're coming to the convention or not

1192
00:52:06,349 --> 00:52:03,660
please join us for the pre-conference

1193
00:52:09,079 --> 00:52:06,359
drinks and great social opportunity and

1194
00:52:11,660 --> 00:52:09,089
don't forget that on the 18th of

1195
00:52:13,309 --> 00:52:11,670
November is the grand dinner for the

1196
00:52:15,229 --> 00:52:13,319
convention which you can attend whether

1197
00:52:18,109 --> 00:52:15,239
you're coming to the convention or not

1198
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:18,119
again tickets are available at skeptics

1199
00:52:23,479 --> 00:52:21,359
calm today you and that looks like to be

1200
00:52:25,309 --> 00:52:23,489
a really a really great night both

1201
00:52:27,589 --> 00:52:25,319
nights I think for those people

1202
00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:27,599
listening in Australia if you tuned in

1203
00:52:34,699 --> 00:52:32,640
to talking life style Tuesdays at 8

1204
00:52:36,589 --> 00:52:34,709
o'clock about ten past eight in fact you

1205
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:36,599
can hear myself and Tim Mendham from the

1206
00:52:41,209 --> 00:52:38,729
Australian skeptics we have a regular

1207
00:52:43,459 --> 00:52:41,219
weekly radio spot on talking life style

1208
00:52:45,380 --> 00:52:43,469
the talking lifestyle Network Tuesdays

1209
00:52:47,359 --> 00:52:45,390
it's just after 8 o'clock in the morning

1210
00:52:50,390 --> 00:52:47,369
about 8:10 and for those Sydney

1211
00:52:52,910 --> 00:52:50,400
listeners that is a 95 for on the dial

1212
00:52:55,309 --> 00:52:52,920
that used to be called to UE and not

1213
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:55,319
forgetting of course that we have also a

1214
00:52:59,870 --> 00:52:57,599
late night very early morning segment on

1215
00:53:03,049 --> 00:52:59,880
the Macquarie network with Mike Williams

1216
00:53:06,229 --> 00:53:03,059
and that's every weekend he does the

1217
00:53:08,299 --> 00:53:06,239
weekend night time shift links on the

1218
00:53:11,569 --> 00:53:08,309
show notes and here is a message that

1219
00:53:14,509 --> 00:53:11,579
came in from the USA from dr. Angie

1220
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:14,519
Mackay hi Richard I can't make it to

1221
00:53:18,049 --> 00:53:16,890
psych on in Las Vegas but I wanted to

1222
00:53:20,539 --> 00:53:18,059
know if you'll be interviewing the

1223
00:53:23,319 --> 00:53:20,549
speakers for the skeptics oh thank you

1224
00:53:26,469 --> 00:53:23,329
for that question Angie yes absolutely

1225
00:53:30,349 --> 00:53:26,479
try and stop me I'll be running around

1226
00:53:32,029 --> 00:53:30,359
the convention saikhan in Las Vegas in

1227
00:53:34,370 --> 00:53:32,039
about two little under two weeks now

1228
00:53:37,249 --> 00:53:34,380
with my microphone getting as many

1229
00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:37,259
interviews from prominent skeptics and

1230
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:38,760
other people people

1231
00:53:44,930 --> 00:53:42,690
just going along as I can to play on the

1232
00:53:46,910 --> 00:53:44,940
sceptic zone over the coming months and

1233
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:46,920
I'm sorry I won't see you there but it

1234
00:53:50,690 --> 00:53:48,210
sounds like it's gonna be a great

1235
00:53:52,970 --> 00:53:50,700
convention I can't wait to catch up with

1236
00:53:55,940 --> 00:53:52,980
all my friends including skeptic zone

1237
00:53:57,890 --> 00:53:55,950
reporter dr. Ricci and speaking of

1238
00:54:00,670 --> 00:53:57,900
skeptic zone reporters a big thank you

1239
00:54:03,140 --> 00:54:00,680
to Shelley stockin for your wonderful

1240
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:03,150
take stock reports over the last couple

1241
00:54:07,010 --> 00:54:03,810
of years

1242
00:54:09,140 --> 00:54:07,020
Shelley has decided to concentrate on

1243
00:54:10,850 --> 00:54:09,150
other things at the moment who knows one

1244
00:54:13,100 --> 00:54:10,860
day we might be able to tempt her back

1245
00:54:15,650 --> 00:54:13,110
to being part of the skeptic zone but

1246
00:54:25,220 --> 00:54:15,660
for now Shelley thank you so much for

1247
00:54:28,340 --> 00:54:25,230
being part of the fun next week on the

1248
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:28,350
show I hope to bring you updates about a

1249
00:54:34,190 --> 00:54:31,920
story which is really just broken in the

1250
00:54:35,780 --> 00:54:34,200
last couple of days and this is the

1251
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:35,790
federal government has announced the

1252
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:37,410
biggest shake-up in private health

1253
00:54:43,340 --> 00:54:40,650
insurance in decades including an end to

1254
00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:43,350
subsidies for natural therapies such as

1255
00:54:49,180 --> 00:54:46,640
homeopathy aromatherapy Pilates and yoga

1256
00:54:52,330 --> 00:54:49,190
it's a very new story we're trying to

1257
00:54:54,740 --> 00:54:52,340
find out more about it but it looks like

1258
00:54:55,940 --> 00:54:54,750
from our point of view from a skeptical

1259
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:55,950
point of view it's certainly a step in

1260
00:54:58,880 --> 00:54:56,850
the right direction

1261
00:55:01,400 --> 00:54:58,890
we'll be concentrating I think on the

1262
00:55:04,100 --> 00:55:01,410
news that homeopathy and aromatherapy

1263
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:04,110
iridology is another one the government

1264
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:06,570
will be ending subsidies for these

1265
00:55:13,790 --> 00:55:11,010
therapies more news next week as we find

1266
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:13,800
out more about exactly what this will

1267
00:55:18,350 --> 00:55:16,410
mean and the implications and next

1268
00:55:21,350 --> 00:55:18,360
week's show we'll be coming to you from

1269
00:55:23,540 --> 00:55:21,360
the Bay Area in San Francisco as I fly

1270
00:55:26,180 --> 00:55:23,550
over to the US and have a few days to

1271
00:55:29,330 --> 00:55:26,190
relax and get over jetlag before heading

1272
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:29,340
to Las Vegas for the saikhan although I

1273
00:55:33,170 --> 00:55:30,930
hear there's a lot of smoke and fires

1274
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:33,180
around the Bay Area at the moment so I

1275
00:55:37,220 --> 00:55:35,010
hope that the situation improves for

1276
00:55:39,830 --> 00:55:37,230
everyone's sake but until then this is

1277
00:55:43,870 --> 00:55:39,840
Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney

1278
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:46,400
you've been listening to the skeptic

1279
00:55:55,070 --> 00:55:50,090
zone podcast please visit our website at

1280
00:55:57,770 --> 00:55:55,080
WWDC be with show notes contacts and to

1281
00:56:01,520 --> 00:55:57,780
access the bat catalog of episodes going

1282
00:56:04,330 --> 00:56:01,530
back to 2008 you can follow the skeptic

1283
00:56:07,070 --> 00:56:04,340
zone podcast on twitter at skeptic zone

1284
00:56:08,620 --> 00:56:07,080
visit our facebook page or leave a

1285
00:56:11,300 --> 00:56:08,630
review on itunes

1286
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:11,310
you can also support the skeptic zone

1287
00:56:17,780 --> 00:56:15,210
via patreon or PayPal you can be part of

1288
00:56:22,190 --> 00:56:17,790
the show by downloading the voice byte

1289
00:56:25,550 --> 00:56:22,200
app at Voice bite comm and using the

1290
00:56:28,270 --> 00:56:25,560
hashtag skeptic zone the skeptic zone

1291
00:56:30,650 --> 00:56:28,280
podcast is an independent production

1292
00:56:32,750 --> 00:56:30,660
reviews and opinions expressed on the

1293
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:32,760
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1294
00:56:36,910 --> 00:56:35,130
of Australian skeptics or any other